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Old October 23rd, 2007, 09:02   #1
Greedy Gus
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Victrix Match report 10-22

Rolling with gus, aus, tae, zi, lucky, tzuul, neo, and kaitrin tonight, running our current balanced build. They woke me up from a nap to play, so I was grumpy gus for awhile.

---

Dark Saints [DS] +0

AT forfeit

Mail in Rebates [Scam] +3 (frozen)

We each won by forfeit during the first round, so we drew each other for a ladder match. This is Sid & Korean's fairly new guild, running balanced. We both came to the gatehouse area and slugged it out 8v8 for a few minutes, staying pretty even (1-2 spike kills each I think). They decided to cap a flag and heavily harass Tzuul on the ice as he responded. We managed to hand-off the flag on the ice and I capped, while the teams migrated to fight at the flagstand.

From here we started to split around a bit to jockey for position and looking for opportunities to get NPCs and splitters, while getting ahead on flags. I had opened the gate into their base at the very start, so we were able to escape being collapsed on strongly in their base, while controlling gatehouse movement.

Eventually we got into the position where their full team was pushing with the rit flagger for a cap, and I got into their base with no response. We were able to stall for a few minutes, during which time I wiped all but 2 archers & the lord from their entire base. They finally made the cap (I think), and did a full team collapse/retreat to base while we started converting kills with snares & catching monks apart. Upon seeing they had no NPCs while taking deaths, they resigned, mentioning that their rit lagged out and were 7v8. Considering he was just pushing a flag and casting spells to keep himself alive, we felt it was a bit weak to blame, but didn't push the issue because we need to pursue good guilds like this for competitive scrim partners.

Dead Baby [joke] +9 (corrupted)

Round 2 of the AT. We recognized a few old top players in their roster like Lucis & Elsa, so perhaps a new guild of returning players. These guys were running a fairly balanced build, with a YAA warrior & buff rit midliner. We pushed full out the back gate at the start, but they met us with their main team. They split 3 out the front capping & killing our footment, so we responded with a mirror and pretty much trashed them 3v3, preventing a boost and having 2 dead immediately after the 2:00 mark. We pushed into their front gate taking out some NPCs and connecting with our main team. Poor positioning after their base res led to us nearly full wiping in their base, allowing them to pick off our back gate NPCs and get position back.

The rest of the match entailed a stalemate split v split in the back path, and a slugfest at the stand. We alternated people to the split but were never able to break them with a footie to retreat to. Eventually we just focused strongly at the stand, and finally started converting kills as they broke just before VoD. We managed to interrupt sigs for about 10+ seconds before VoD, bouncing one of their monks, and proceeded to slaughter most of their team. As the NPCs came out we had to back off, and won after a short brawl when the lords arrived.

Planet Unicorn [Heyy] +0

AT forfeit

We Count Courses [wcc] +2 (weeping stone)

These guys went with a bit of a strange opening play, crashing our lord room with their full blockway team by going straight out the back (even brought a flag into our base). Some miscommunication and bad positioning led us to get back slowly, lose our thief, and start getting owned in our base. We were able to split out the front a bit, and eventually maintain flag control. Collapsing into our base timed with a bunch of us base ressing finally let us break their defense and push them full out of our base. We saved a bunch for after time, but the thief is so slow we weren't able to make any progress in their base before they ressed.

After that, we fell back to fight at the flagstand finally, and maintained position to keep them in the spores long enough to keep pace with their kills, though we were primarily killing monks (they focused on our ele). Eventually we broke them full back to base and they had so much DP they resigned.

Delta Formation [DF] -2 (burning)

4th round of the AT, we drew DF (probably the best 8v8 team in the game atm) on burning They were running their more balanced build, with paragon, cripshot, and glyph essence & ward dom mes. We did alright for the first few minutes, generating a bit of pressure, nearly spiking a monk, and gaining some position with slight forward split moves. Unfortunately we failed to change our water ele to flagging (which we had planned on vs. HEV), and began to really get burned by their pressure. They continued to push hard and were able to practically ignore our weak split diversions, finishing our lord fairly quickly.

Dark Alley [dR] -5 (frozen)

Drew iQ for the final match of the AT. We had no real idea what to expect, as they've always changed up builds well, so just went in with what we'd been playing on ladder. Turned out they were running a pretty brutal dual cripshot ranger build with 3 warriors (linebacker, split shock axe, rend touch axe) and the rit flagger. We opted to split to the stand initially hoping we'd have an advantage in split, but we were dominated hard by their mirror split. Our main team was also pushed back into base. I ran around a bit to pull some guys back, but they weren't about to let us get any split action in their base and aggressively fell back rangers & wars to snare and kill. Early on, though I dodged 6 consecutive recurve cripshots in about 20 seconds (major DKP), I mistimed the archer aggro and got pinned down

We continued to fail at trying to create mismatches & opportunities for awhile (ended up only getting one archer I think), just taking deaths & being out of position on the ice a lot. We decided to reset with a turtle, and were able to be at least on better footing against them 8v8. Got a kill on a ranger and D-shotted LoD, but they were quick to retreat and play very defensively at any sign of trouble. They decided to just wait until VoD. With the rit and having cleared all our outer archers & 1 knight, they were at a pretty unassailable advantage. Our only main option was to gank, but they quickly bodyblocked the gatehouse path, so we were forced to waste time slipping around the side (and allowing them to push on our lord forcing our defense back). We couldn't accomplish anything at their lord, and they didn't make any mistakes to be exploited. Lords walked and ours exploded.

---

Overall a decent night, coming in 4th in the AT (monday's is typically the prime american timeslot, solid competition) and only losing to the 2 top american guilds. We made a whole lot of positioning and communication mistakes though, which we're still working on cutting out, slowly but surely.

Also, we've picked up another addition to the roster, help us welcome Yichi to the fold (once he signs up for the forum )
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Last edited by Greedy Gus; October 23rd, 2007 at 09:12.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 09:27   #2
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Dead Baby [joke] +9 (corrupted)
Wow +9 points must mean they ranked quite higher than you! Even though rank doesn't mean much, you guys did great to win against them .

A net total of +7 points, awesome!
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 09:31   #3
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Wow +9 points must mean they ranked quite higher than you! Even though rank doesn't mean much, you guys did great to win against them .

A net total of +7 points, awesome!
Nah they were ranked a lot lower it's just the K value for AT's is much higher than regular ladder matches. For an equal ranking team you get +15.

Pretty fun night overall though.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 13:28   #4
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Grats on another great night, Victrix!

Welcome to the alliance, Yichi. I put you in the Victrix Member usergroup so you should be all set!
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 14:55   #5
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Nah they were ranked a lot lower it's just the K value for AT's is much higher than regular ladder matches. For an equal ranking team you get +15.

Pretty fun night overall though.
lol
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 16:46   #6
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I suppose I let the last two matches get to me, I left in a pretty sour mood, my apologies. Those are teams that theres no shame in losing too, but I think we could have done alot better against dR, we just came out so flat, it was really disheartening. We played really great against scam, though (flawless, as a matter of fact, get it right Gus), and if we can play that way more often we'll really be a force.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 18:55   #7
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Delta Formation [DF] -2 (burning)

4th round of the AT, we drew DF (probably the best 8v8 team in the game atm) on burning They were running their more balanced build, with paragon, cripshot, and glyph essence & ward dom mes. We did alright for the first few minutes, generating a bit of pressure, nearly spiking a monk, and gaining some position with slight forward split moves. Unfortunately we failed to change our water ele to flagging (which we had planned on vs. HEV), and began to really get burned by their pressure. They continued to push hard and were able to practically ignore our weak split diversions, finishing our lord fairly quickly.
Hope ye dont mind me giving some insight from outside.

I obs'd that match with a few people. While DF is a powerhouse 8v8, they are much more of a powerhouse split. I saw that you guys kept trying to split Aus or Gus to take out NPCs at the begining. While I can understand your thinking and this works perfectly against most guilds, because you guys know how and when to pull it off... agaisnt DF, this may not be the best. DF is pretty much godly when it comes to collapsing on any kind of split you make, while making sure that monks never get to you to save you.

While I can see what you where trying to do, it might have been better to go 8v8. From a personal view, I think you have a better chance of wiping DF 8v8 and then moving on to something, than to split through them. Maybe if the split had gone through the back (sentinels), it would have been much more effective, though in that case, they would have taken the oportunity of pushing through you harder, since you had less offense in the main team.

Anyway, this is just my 2 cents. Personal view. I still enjoyed the matches I saw you guys on, in obs.

Now ill my way out of here.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 21:45   #8
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Hope ye dont mind me giving some insight from outside.

I obs'd that match with a few people. While DF is a powerhouse 8v8, they are much more of a powerhouse split. I saw that you guys kept trying to split Aus or Gus to take out NPCs at the begining. While I can understand your thinking and this works perfectly against most guilds, because you guys know how and when to pull it off... agaisnt DF, this may not be the best. DF is pretty much godly when it comes to collapsing on any kind of split you make, while making sure that monks never get to you to save you.

While I can see what you where trying to do, it might have been better to go 8v8. From a personal view, I think you have a better chance of wiping DF 8v8 and then moving on to something, than to split through them. Maybe if the split had gone through the back (sentinels), it would have been much more effective, though in that case, they would have taken the oportunity of pushing through you harder, since you had less offense in the main team.

Anyway, this is just my 2 cents. Personal view. I still enjoyed the matches I saw you guys on, in obs.

Now ill my way out of here.
Thats an interesting contrasting opinion. We were laboring under the assumption that they are much more dangerous 8v8 than split, and we would have been much more competitive if that match had been on Frozen than Burning, since splitting is currently our Forte.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 21:56   #9
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Thats an interesting contrasting opinion. We were laboring under the assumption that they are much more dangerous 8v8 than split, and we would have been much more competitive if that match had been on Frozen than Burning, since splitting is currently our Forte.
Dont think ive seen DF lose on Frozen ever. Frozen is their element basically. I personally would never like to go vs DF on Frozen. I dont mind any other map though.

PS. Im being quite the forum troll today... damn work is boring today.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 22:35   #10
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I always have known DF to be very strong splitting, really one of the stronger guilds at it. They're also very strong 8v8 :-p. But when they've faced unfavorable 8v8 match ups they've won convincingly by solid splitting and movement. Shame really not many guilds even consider it nowadays, they'd rather play boring ass defense balls because they have pounds monking or something.

ACTUALLY, Yue is reading this, HE CAN TELL US IMO.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 22:54   #11
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We weren't trying to hard split them, just poking at forward splits to gain position like I mentioned (burning sucks to lose slight flagstand position because your flagger gets harassed every single time). But yeah I stayed extended too long and I think farin fell back with adren and got me. Either way I'll take a single death for position in that scenario, and it didn't really have to do with us taking huge pressure after that & getting wiped.

The rest of the splitting in that match was intended more as a diversion to keep them from focusing on finishing the match, but it wasn't effective.

Whether or not DF is great at splitting, we were at a build disadvantage 8v8 and at a slight advantage for split.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 23:01   #12
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I still think it was a nice match. Wether the split worked or not, both teams played with their diferent elements and did what they could.
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Old October 24th, 2007, 00:07   #13
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Last time we split DF we got like 30dp on one war, 15dp on the other and possibly some on their other split char's while we took 0 deaths before we made a huge mistake so I don't think it's that bad of an idea for us to run around a bit and get position. However I think we were somehow getting the better of them in the first engagement so we should have stuck to that for a bit longer.

The dR match people just played poorly with our split playing the initial skirmish wrong and then people being out of position countless times. dR are a good guild and it will be tough to beat them when we don't make simple mistakes, once they were in control of the match it was always going to be a hard task to accomplish anything. I'm confident we can do a better job against them next time though.

Like I said though fun games and we're still improving quite a bit each night which is good.
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Old October 24th, 2007, 00:19   #14
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I played pretty poorly against dR, so I can attest to the whole out of position thing, I was over zealous trying to help the team make a clean get away, in the end I watched the replay and smacked my head a bunch of times @_@

But also, it looks like people were actually building against us somewhat, we ran into mad HEV mesmers which really limited my role, especially 8v8. Even in situations when I snared only to help us get an extra few seconds for a get away or re-position, it still ended up hurting us. Against DF I would have ran flags plenty, but by the time Tzuul capped the first, we were already falling back. If HEV starts becoming a 5 out of 7 match occurance every night, we may need to re-spec my bar to make me a bit more useful when stuck against an HEV. 1 ward and draw ain't gonna cut it, especially when the HEV knows thats all i got left and guns to interrupt/divert me.

Along with everyone, I too felt we played fairly strong and communicated really well in the first 3 or so matches, then had a few bad lapses of concentration against the teams that would really punish us for mistakes, I don't think it will be so bad on the rematch vs either of them (not that they ever play us with the same build twice )
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Old August 15th, 2008, 20:10   #15
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Sheesh, I'd be cranky too with that crappy of silverware.

Glad you liked the report though!
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